8 Relatively Obvious Things to Try When Stressed

Photo by Jordan Elliott

Sorry if you’ve heard these all before….

Note from editor: I was randomly looking through my drafts and came across this. No idea when I wrote it. Thought I might as well hit publish in case any part of it is helpful to any reader. xoxox

1. Speak Openly

Anxiety and depression happen to the most extraordinary people. The more you start to talk about, the more you see how unalone you truly are.

2. Tune in

Anxiety alerts me when I am in misalignment — it’s a tell-tale sign that I should get out of my comfort zone. Instead of letting anxiety define me, I use it as a catalyst for growth.

3. Assign Meaning to Suffering

In Man’s Search for Meaning, Viktor Frankl highlights those who survived the Holocaust were able to assign meaning to their suffering.

We think of ourselves as rational beings, but in reality human beings are driven by emotions. Through working on my anxiety I have been able to understand emotion and suffering on a much deeper level, which has allowed me to build deeper relationships and, ideally, help others who may be going through something similar. It has provided me with so much more fulfillment than anything else I have ever done.

4. Build Your Resilience

Spend some time each day working on your mental fitness. There has been loads of scientific research done on the benefits of mindfulness and meditation on the brain. It can help lower depression and anxiety, but it has also been shown to increase focus, creativity, and happiness.

Even if you have kicked the demons out of the house, they are in the parking lot lifting weights, waiting for you to open the door. This is why it’s vital to continue to work on developing mental resilience.

Here are some exercises I suggest:

• Meditate/Priming: Spend 5–30 minutes every morning “clearing the fog”

• Journal: Write whatever comes to mind

• Set reminders on your phone to go off several times a day that alert you to take 3 deep breathes

• Laugh or Play

• Keep track of your small “wins” throughout the day and week — I take screegngrabs of wins and put them in a folder on my desktop

• Take a long walk without music, podcasts, or a phone

• Block time for Innovation — Give yourself  a 1–2-hour block of time alone with a journal and no technology. I have gotten some of my best work insights from innovation blocks.

5. Untie Your Self-Worth From Work

Maintain an appropriate amount of responsibility for your work and realize that you cannot control everything that happens. There are forces that can tank a business that have nothing to do with you aptitude or ability. Take an inventory of what you can and cannot control.

6. Remember to Care for Your Body

It’s not always easy, when you start to beat yourself up about your body, try to thank it for all it does for you every day. Then care for it accordingly!

7. Play or Create Daily

Get yourself into a flow state.

Here is an excellent piece on how play and creation can decrease your anxiety and make you more productive.

8. Get Quality Sleep

Protect your sleep like nothing else. Nothing should affect your sleep schedule.

Put a reminder on your phone that will alert you to go to bed about an hour before you want to fall asleep. Then turn off your phone and start to wind down for the night. A consistent nightly routine will help tremendously.

Conor Sharkey on Rugby, Life, and OCD

As part of my job at Pinterest, I am lucky enough to co-lead a powerful community group called Pinside Out. Through this work, I am connected with amazing people around the world who are also interested in sharing their personal experiences around mental health. One of those fantastic people is Dublin-based Conor Sharkey. Conor, thank you so much for sharing your light with all of us. ❤️

BEVOYA: Conor, I am so excited that I got to meet you through our shared workplace of Pinterest. Can you tell me a little bit about how you landed there (I heard a rugby club was involved) and what you do now?

CONOR: Sure! I work as an Account Manager on the EMEA Sales Team in the Pinterest Dublin office, so I help new advertisers get up and running on the platform. I get to work with many and varied clients, as well as a ton of smart and suspiciously nice people! Before that I worked as the digital media manager for Leinster Rugby, a rugby club in Dublin that represents the province of Leinster in Ireland (the 12 county army!). I got to cut my teeth there and work across professional and amateur rugby - there were some amazing days I will honestly remember for the rest of my life.

BEVOYA: I'd love to know a little about your mental health journey. What are some of your earliest memories that you now realize are connected to mental health?

CONOR: I have a very vivid memory of walking home from Gaelic football training from a field at the back of my house and counting steps in multiples of five. One step equaled five because five toes on each foot. Makes sense, right? Counting, not stepping on cracks. Reach a certain number before I moved onto another part of the path. Looking back now I know that was a small, insidious part of my own brain developing the OCD I was eventually diagnosed with when I was 24. I haven't totally weaned myself off this. But I'm very aware of it and know how these small compulsions can snowball into something much worse.

BEVOYA: What are your biggest "mental health moments" — can you tell us about a couple of your own personal turning points?

CONOR: The turning point came for me shortly before my 24th birthday. I was out with some friends but I was annoyed with myself. Hating myself. Just consumed by horrible thoughts. How worthless I was. What a terrible person I was. I remember locking myself in a toilet cubicle and bursting into tears. I couldn't contain it. I went home and completely unloaded all of this emotion onto my parents and they were amazing. They just listened and wanted to help. I'm very lucky to have them. From there, we started to do something about it. I went to see my GP. He referred me to a psychiatrist and he diagnosed me with OCD. It was great to actually have someone tell you what the hell this was. So many things from my earlier years suddenly made sense. How I would be consumed by terrible, obsessive thoughts; I've died so many times in my head and given so many eulogies it's almost funny, I've imagined the people I care about most suffering horrible fates. These obsessive thoughts turned into a self-hatred. That self-hatred developed into a mental and physical self-harm I didn’t at the time consider self-harm. In hindsight, punching walls and hitting myself was not exactly healthy behaviour. But I was hiding all of this from people. It just got to the point where everything boiled over and I couldn't hide it from anyone else or myself.

I went on medication for 12 months after this and it was a game changer. I got better. I got a proper job. But really I just replaced my previous obsessive behaviours with a new one: work. This allowed the monster in my head to resurface and hide in plain sight. It was only years later when all of this boiled over again, and I was once again crying in my parents' arms, that I resolved to take a different approach. I reached out to a therapist and just spoke. She was amazing. We dug into everything. The awareness of this that I never fully developed grew. To be honest, I never properly accepted that I had a mental health problem. I saw a psychiatrist, took some drugs, and the problem was solved! But it wasn't. Not really. Now I fully appreciate what I'm dealing with. I never wanted to indulge in what I thought was tantamount to self pity. When really it was self preservation. That bad part of my brain trying to save itself while sacrificing me. No chance. I still have bad days, or bad weeks. My mood fluctuates. But knowing where that all comes from and tackling it head on - particularly with the help of my incredible wife - makes such a difference.

BEVOYA: What do you wish more people knew about OCD?

CONOR: That it's not a byword for 'liking things to be a certain way'. It's not a personality trait. OCD affects my daily life, it's never not there. It's not the same as liking to alphabetise a book shelf.

BEVOYA: When you share your own story, who are you hoping to reach?

CONOR: Anyone else that even remotely feels like I do. I used to hate seeing famous people speak publicly about their mental health issues. I thought it was all very convenient and great for their profile. It was only when I engaged my brain and realised that I had the same issues that I realised how much comfort I take in hearing about people similar to me. Nothing makes me feel better. I used to think everyone was like me to varying degrees. Then I realised that was very much not the case But then from hearing other people's stories, and talking more, you realise you're not completely alone in this. I also hope it reaches people who still stigmatise people with mental health problems - 'it's all a load of made up rubbish, get on with it!'. How nice it must be to be you! I think the discussion scares a lot of people. Irish people in particular are not great at talking about this stuff - hence alcohol being at the centre of almost everything we do. But that's steadily changing. We'll get there.

BEVOYA: You are amazing, Conor. Thank you!

Joshua Kemble on Creating Another World

A page from Jacob's Apartment by Joshua Kemble

Joshua Kemble, award-winning artist and author of Two Stories, revisits Beautiful Voyager to share the story of his latest graphic novel, a beautiful book about identity, purpose, creativity, and love.

BEVOYA: It's great to talk to you again Joshua! What's changed since last we talked?

Illustrated self-portrait by Joshua Kemble

JOSHUA: A lot has changed. Since my graphic novel about dealing with mental illness Two Stories: Book One was picked up for publication by Markosia, I've gone on to get a book deal for my first graphic novel about the questions that can shake even the strongest of faith Jacob's Apartment, which is releasing June 7th from Graphic Mundi, and am currently at work on the artwork for a collaborative historical fiction graphic novel about Elizabeth Barrett Browning written by my sister, Lavender Vroman, Not Death, But Love: The Strange, Supernatural Story of Elizabeth Barrett Browning to be released in 2024 from West Margin Press, as well as working on Two Stories: Book Two. So it's been a very busy, and exciting time, where a lot of publishing doors and opportunities have opened. And it's extremely busy.

BEVOYA: How has your mental health been lately? Your creativity?

JOSHUA: My mental health has been fairly balanced. One thing that's helped me with not overthinking is being swamped with so much work I've barely got time to think. Saying yes to opportunities as they arise has really helped put me in a situation where I have to move forward and be creative every day without second guessing or overthinking since there's just honestly no time to do so.

BEVOYA: Tell us about Jacob's Apartment. What led you to create this book?

JOSHUA: Jacob's Apartment is a coming-of-age graphic novel in the vein of Ghost World and Fun Home. At first glance, college roommates Jacob and Sarah seem like polar opposites. Jacob is a Christian; Sarah is an atheist. Sarah is a drinker, and Jacob, a teetotaler. But they have been friends for years, finding commonality in their shared dream to create art. Jacob’s world is turned upside down when his father dies, causing him to question his faith. Meanwhile, Sarah wrestles with her own demons, searching for solace in one-night stands after her boyfriend (and professor) leaves her for a job in New York.

I was inspired to create the book in response to the tumultuous time in my life where I had lost my father to cancer and was questioning my faith while simultaneously trying to start my career as an artist. It was a tumultuous time of life in which grief and young love became confused and often complicated. It seemed like a good area to mine for storytelling. I was also intrigued by the idea of using dreams both waking and sleeping as a theme that could weave in and out throughout the story.

A page from Jacob's Apartment by Joshua Kemble

BEVOYA: What are the steps you take to get a graphic novel published? Is that a hard journey at this point, or pretty straight forward?

JOSHUA: In most of the cases, I've had a completed graphic novel, with everything, including the artwork finished. Each book took about 5 years to complete, and I was fortunate enough to have a literary agent who advocated for my books to get published, helped edit, refine and build book proposals for the books. In the case of Jacob's Apartment, my editor at Graphic Mundi, Kendra, had some amazing editorial guidance that helped me to refine the story, and fix a few untied plot threads throughout it. With Not Death, But Love: The Strange, Supernatural Story of Elizabeth Barrett Browning, this was the first book proposal where we only had submitted sample pages and a script through my literary agent, and it got picked up, so it's a new, but exciting experience.

It's still a hard journey to get a graphic novel published, but less so than it was for the first, and now the bigger struggle is finding the time to produce the work, and to promote the books when they are out. My literary agent, Keely, was a game changer in that respect.

BEVOYA: What do you most want people to know about Jacob's Apartment? Why should they check it out?

JOSHUA: Jacob's Apartment weaves together the threads of spiritual faith, identity, purpose, love, and loss to create an engrossing world in which waking and sleeping dreams collide. I believe it will be an impactful, meaningful, and beautiful experience for readers, especially those who've lost a loved one at a young age.

Photo of Joshua Kemble at work

BEVOYA. Any final thoughts to share?

JOSHUA: I'm thankful for the opportunity to share with you a bit about Jacob's Apartmentand appreciate your openness and encouragement of open discussions on hard and often taboo topics, it's a giant interest of mine to write about such topics, and it's awesome there are others out there interested in similar themes.

BEVOYA: Thank YOU, Joshua, for creating another world for us all to connect with, escape to, and learn from.

The Emotional Fallout of Physical Sports Injuries

Photo by Harlie Raethel

An ACL rupture may seem like no big deal, but it can affect your sense of self in deep ways.

This Q&A features Dr. Keagen Hadley, a doctor of occupational therapy specializing in psychological treatments such as acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT).

As an athlete, Keagen tore both ACLs playing college and semi-professional football. This experience made him acutely aware of the struggles associated psychologically post-ACL injury and how to overcome them with positive results.

Let’s explore the emotional fallout of physical injuries with someone who knows the experience intimately…

BEVOYA: Can you tell me about yourself? Where do you live? What are your credentials? What kinds of people do you work with?

KEAGEN: am a Doctor of Occupational Therapy (OTD, OTR/L) specializing in psychiatric conditions. Specifically, I am devoted to helping individuals recover psychologically and physically from joint injuries. This is mainly because I, as an athlete, tore both of my ACLs, requiring 4 surgeries. 

I'm currently residing in Bismarck, North Dakota, and I enjoy working out and pushing my body to the limit. Between my girlfriend, working out, and writing, that is all I do anymore, and I love it. My "day job" is as the associate director of medical writing at Supernus Pharmaceuticals. Essentially, I manage or write numerous deliverables for submission to regulatory agencies (like the FDA). While this may seem totally unrelated, I assure you it isn't. Supernus focuses solely on neurologic and psychiatric conditions like treatment-resistant depression, OCD, etc. 

BEVOYA: How do people tend to find you?

KEAGEN: People find me or what I am up to, generally, via word of mouth. I am supremely active on LinkedIn, which certainly helps. I have also started appearing on more and more podcasts with like-minded individuals to promote my upcoming book "Torn: Overcoming the Psychological Challenges Post-ACL Injury".  Lastly, my blog and website have recently been initiated and I post content multiple times a week relevant to mental health, joint health, workout technology, entrepreneurship, and personal development. 

BEVOYA: Can you walk us through the typical experience you have with new patients/clients?

KEAGEN: When I work with new patients, I like to start by getting to know them and their goals. My clients are generally struggling with how to function optimally and navigate the landscape of injured life. Many feel they have lost their self-esteem and self-identity because of the injury. 

My goal is to assist clients, using ACT, to cultivate the skills necessary to minimize the associated psychological effects on their physical rehabilitation and life.  For example, a common issue my clients have is verbalizing severely fused thoughts negatively affecting how they view themselves due to the injury.  Cognitive fusion is the thought process that "I am sad" or "I am broken", rather than being able to understand "I am having feelings of sadness" or "I feel as though I am broken". While this may seem like a small and trivial revelation, it is just one of many steps down the path to psychological flexibility. 

BEVOYA: Do you only work with ACL injuries? If not, what other injuries do you commonly see?

KEAGEN: I do mainly work with ACL injuries due to the nature and length of the rehabilitation process. The reason these injuries are so debilitating to people is the large amount of time that it takes to heal. When you see a huge, seemingly "manly" NFL player weeping after an ACL injury, I can all but assure you it is due to the loss of what they love, which is football, and not due to pain. They, like many athletes, are acutely aware of the magnitude of the injury they likely have endured and know they "may" never be the same, therefore losing the ability to self-identify as a player of sport x, y, or z. 

In the future, I plan to also work with the 30-70 age group as well to prevent the necessity of total knee surgeries. That is another passion that I have, and likely it will become another book. 

BEVOYA: What are some of the patterns you see with people with ACL injuries and identity struggles?

KEAGEN: There are a few identity struggles that commonly emerge in people who have suffered ACL injuries. First, many individuals tend to feel a great sense of loss or grief after sustaining an ACL injury. This is often compounded by the fact that they are no longer able to participate in activities that were once central to their identity. For example, a former athlete may feel like they have lost a part of themselves after being forced to give up their sport, even if this is just for rehabilitation. 

After suffering an ACL injury, many individuals have difficulty discovering a new sense of purpose. This can be especially hard on athletes who have dedicated their whole lives to their sport. They may feel as if they do not have a reason to train and stay in shape if they are unable to participate.

Finally, many people with ACL injuries also struggle with body image issues. The injury can cause deformity and swelling, which can lead to feelings of self-consciousness and dissatisfaction with one's appearance. Not only that but if they were already prone to body dysmorphic thoughts then this would be compounded by the inability to work out as rigorously as before.

BEVOYA: What advice do you give people who struggle to accept physical limitations and pain (asking for a friend LOL)?

KEAGEN: I would say that it is my personal belief that anyone, regardless of where they are starting, can make huge gains with targeted and joint-specific training. At 25 I would spend weeks during the spring and fall in severe pain due to my 4 surgeries. Now, a few months from 30, I can probably do more physically than I could prior to the surgeries. I attribute all my success to incremental and scalable exercises that ANYONE can start. BUT in the meantime, I would say from a psychological perspective, it is important to give yourself grace and understand that your body has likely gone through a lot. Even with the right program, it will take months or years to get where you want. The real secret is learning to love where you are in the process. 

The hardest part is finding the right process, and that is what I want to provide to my clients, both psychologically and physically. 

---

When You Have it All and Still Feel Frazzled

Desiree arrived for her first session, impeccably dressed as if for a magazine spread. Tall and blonde, with a fierce scowl of impatience, she rapidly regaled me with her success story. She had created a business that had made her a multimillionaire before the age of 35. Her beach home had just been featured in a leading decorating magazine. She and her husband traveled and entertained extensively. They frequently appeared in the society pages of the local newspaper. Desiree had achieved everything she had hoped for, and yet she felt frazzled and unhappy.

“What is wrong with me? I have everything I ever wanted. I look at my best friend from college. She is so happy working for a non-profit agency. My other friend is a schoolteacher. They both seem so happy, and they make a fraction of what I make. I want to find something that makes me happy!” she said.

After ruling out health, relationship, and depression issues, I asked her, “What do you truly care about besides being happy and successful?” Desiree was stumped.

“How does your business, talent, and effort help other people?” I asked.

“I don’t know. I am constantly on my employees, so not sure how that helps them. My husband likes me,” she chuckled.

“So, your business provides jobs for people. Isn’t that helping them?” I asked.

“Well, I guess the job helps them support themselves,” she agreed. “Isn’t there something else I should be doing with my life that would make me happier?” she asked.

“It appears that achieving great success has not made you happy. Perhaps you will feel happier focusing on something else,” I said. I sent her home with an assignment. Instead of thinking about her own happiness, she was to examine precisely how her talents and efforts contributed to the greater good.

In the next session, Desiree shared her list of ways that her business and other activities helped others. “I had to ask my husband for help on this assignment,” she said. “I’m usually just focused on results.”

I asked her what it felt like to think of herself as connected in an essential way to others in the community.

“It feels better,” she said. “It makes me want to do more. I thought it might be fun to coordinate a charity fundraising gala this year.” she said. 

After a few more sessions, Desiree learned the secret to happiness and wellbeing. Kindness toward others provides far more happiness dividends than self-focused achievement. Simply thinking differently about our connection to the greater community can generate a sense of purpose and wellbeing.

Take a moment to think about how you currently influence others. How does your work intersect with the broader community around you? What kind of influence would you like to have on others? The following frazzle hack can help you explore your connection to the larger community around you. Take some time to think about your goals and record your answers in your frazzle hack journal:

Frazzle Hack: Greater Good Goals

• How do your unique personality traits, talents, skills, background, or interests contribute to your family, friends, and the larger community? (Humor, technical skills, friendliness, communication skills, creativity, reliability, sensitivity, health, safety, technical knowledge, etc.)

• How do you make a positive contribution to the lives of others? (Provide services, products, order, companionship, transportation, friendship, information, etc.)

• Who benefits the most from your contributions? (Customers, family, city, country, etc.)

• What kind of impact do you want to have on the people in your sphere of influence? (Better service, kindness, education, safety, entertainment, support, love, security, etc.)

• What one change would you like to help create in the world? (Happier customers, healthy children, better service, more efficient products/services, safety, healthy environment, help the poor, humane treatment of animals, etc.)

• Who could you join with to help you affect that change? (Church groups, friends, co-workers, environmental groups, philanthropic organizations, service clubs, community organizations, online communities, etc.)

• In what way can you develop or grow to make more of a positive difference? (Education, communication, coaching, reading, better self-care, get more rest, join with others, volunteer, etc.)

Notice how you feel when you think about yourself in the larger context of your family and community. Greater Good Goals can provide that spark of motivation to help you persist when things seem overwhelming.

Excerpted from Frazzlebrain: Break Free from Anxiety, Anger, and Stress Using Advanced Discoveries in Neuropsychology (c) 2022 Gina Simmon Schneider. Reprinted with permission from Central Recovery Press.

What I Learned About Navigating the Mental Health System

Photo by ali elliott

In my long and unavoidable experience with mental illnesses, I at first felt hopeful. Who wouldn’t, when you're told you have numerous doctors at your disposal for help? My family and I had been exhausted by my violent and drastic mood swings. The entanglement of delusions and psychosis had long ago become too much to bear. I was entrusted to a mental hospital in Brattleboro, Vermont at age fifteen. This would be the first of many unsuccessful psychiatric hospital stays. I was roomed with another girl who had behavioral issues because of the lack of attention her parents were giving her, she explained to me as her lashing out. During the day we would attend groups together and fill out self-help workbooks, all of which barely scratched the surface for me.

 What bothered me most was how they herded us into rooms from one doctor to the next, all giving us new diagnosis and prognosis of a new medication plan that would save the day. Oh, how I wish I had as much hope for success that the doctors did.  They gave promises of improvement and made me feel like they could fix me (they all do) yet they all fail to succeed. And in the end, it’s me who fails. Leaving myself constantly wondering. Am I broken? Is there no one and nothing out there that can make the pain go away? Something to make my brain just go along and participate in “everyday normal life”, may I walk with the rest of them, blending in with normalcy.

I have been through a series of around thirty medications, plenty of therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists’ doctors, drug infusions, and even electric shock. I have really been around the bend and back when it came to “treatment” for my illness, spanning from age fifteen to my current thirty-six. Every time it was always a battle. If not, because of lack of help, then it was the financial aspect of treating mental illness. With insurance I was still forking out monthly $210 in prescriptions (which was nothing compared to the thousands it cost without) $80 in co-pays for med management, and $280 in co-pays for weekly therapy.  As for other treatments such as neurofeedback, EMDR and Ketamine infusions, they aren’t covered or even take insurance (I have yet to find one) so all of that is out of pocket.

The most recent were the Ketamine infusions, which cost around $500 a session. I remember my first infusion where the nurse came in and inserted the needle and hooked me up to an IV of fluids. Then she stepped out of the room, and as 5 or so minutes go by, I still felt no effects from the medication. So, when the nurse came back, I told her “Um, I’m sorry, but I don’t think this is working, I don’t feel any different or better” the nurse just giggled to herself and said “Well honey I wouldn’t expect you to, that is just saline, I didn’t inject the Ketamine yet” I just laughed and apologized for being an idiot. But when the infusion did start it was almost beautiful, a picture of my life laid out before me, with all the ways of getting what I needed and wanted in life. I saw my children playing and laughing. It was a great experience, but it isn’t for everyone. I even had a bad reaction one episode and starting yelling at the doctor, because I was insisting that he was trying to kill me. His wife had to come into the room and hug me until I calmed down.  So, I suppose it could go either way. I still feel it did help me get further down the path to wellness, but I don’t think it is a long-term solution.

I begin looking further into more advanced rehabs, but research has shown me that I couldn’t find one mental rehabilitation center that accepted Medicaid or Medicare in the US. The only ones I could find that took my insurance was a drug and alcohol rehab, that also treated secondary mental health issues. This is a problem. Why is it not important? Why are our brains, these concepts, so hard for people to grasp? It is a scary, long, hard, and insane up and down plunge through total darkness and we shouldn’t have to do it alone.

Don’t get me wrong, I think these facilities treating addictions are important. I just don’t understand why mental health is seemingly less important. Considering that the National Institute of Health states around half of the people who experience mental illness in their lives will also suffer a substance abuse disorder at some point, dots need to be connected here. Maybe there isn’t enough available medication to subside these symptoms people are enduring and they end up turning to other substances. I know I did.

Now I’m pushing forty and have a lifetime of pain and turbulence to navigate through still. But I do believe there is a sliver of hope, and for people that suffer from severe depression, anxiety, PTSD, bipolar, etc…sometimes that is all we need. Yes, it is debilitating, playing trial and error with your mental health, new meds, therapies, doctors, hoping to find what will work well for you. But that’s what you must keep doing. Not give up and hold onto that sliver of hope. Find that treatment that works, so you may be able to provide insight to someone else who suffers.

We must keep picking ourselves up. If we all stand up and request more help, more guidance, more treatment centers will open and hopefully they will become more affordable. According to the National Institute of Mental Illness, one in five US Americans suffer from some form of mental illness. In 2019, this was 51.5 million people. Don’t you think the world should provide more help to them? More access to resources, treatment, therapy, and medications? Knowledge is power, and we need to teach the world that there is more to mental illness, we need more help, fight the stigma.

About the Author

Ashley Cote was born and raised in the small town of Westminster, Vermont alongside her two brothers and two sisters. She is the oldest of her mother’s children and middle child of her father’s. After getting married young she had her first daughter in the state of Massachusetts where they lived. Ashley had her second daughter six years later while residing in Florida where she went to school to be a certified nursing assistant.

After discovering nursing wasn’t for her, Ashley and her family moved to North Carolina to be in the mountains, where she currently resides while attending school as a biology major.

Am I Going Through a Nervous Breakdown?

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A nervous breakdown can happen to anyone, including someone who seems to have a high level of emotional resilience. People have different physiological and biological makeup, some are naturally able to cope with heavy or extreme stress, while others are easily overwhelmed. It does not mean you are weak, it only tells how much the brain can take. Life stressors and challenges can eventually take their toll. When they do, even those who are considered highly resilient may experience a nervous breakdown.

What Does It Mean to Have a Nervous Breakdown?

A nervous breakdown, also called mental breakdown, refers to the inability to perform functions of daily life due to intense psychological distress. In a wider context, the term also means the inability to cope with life’s challenges.

In the past, mental health experts used many terms such as depression, anxiety, and acute stress disorder to refer to a nervous breakdown. The term is no longer used because it has not been recognized as a mental health disorder by the American Psychiatry Association in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM–5). But due to its symptoms, it has gained more and more recognition and acceptance in the medical community. 

Symptoms of a Nervous Breakdown

Various physical, psychological, and behavioral symptoms are present when someone is dealing with a breakdown. Your symptoms may be mild to severe and differ from someone else's depending on the underlying cause of the breakdown. Etiology may include mental health disorders such as anxiety disorder, depression, or schizophrenia. And you might or might not experience all of the symptoms listed below:

• Depressive symptoms, such as hopelessness or helplessness.

• Frequent thoughts of self-harm or suicide.

• Sudden angry outbursts or extreme mood swings.

• Insomnia (trouble falling or staying asleep).

• Sleep disturbances.

• Anxiety, panic attacks, or shakiness.

• Feeling physically unwell.

• Unexplained or general aches and pains.

• Difficulty thinking, focusing, remembering, or making decisions.

• Psychosis, e.g., paranoia, hallucinations, or delusions.

• Intrusive thoughts or flashbacks of a traumatic event are similar to post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

People experiencing a nervous breakdown may show symptoms that are similar to clinical depression. They may neglect their hygiene, health, or sleep or eat poorly. They may engage in certain avoidance behaviors like:

• Withdrawing from family, friends, and co-workers

• Isolating themselves or hiding "away from the world"

• Avoiding family time or social functions or engagements

• Avoiding work or school by saying they're ill
  

What Causes a Nervous Breakdown?

If you ever hear someone say, "I think I'm having a nervous breakdown," they are saying they are under severe stress that is too much to bear. External stressors that can trigger a nervous breakdown include:

• Chronic work or relationship stress.

• Persistent stress from raising children.

• Serious financial problems.

• Being on the brink of losing your home or custody of your kids.

• A major life event such as divorce or disability.

• Death of a loved one.

• Chronic medical conditions.

• Chronic sleep deprivation or insomnia.

• Alcohol or drug abuse.

• Trauma associated with physical or sexual abuse, sexual orientation (LGBTQ+), racism, or war.

Individuals who have a greater chance of a mental breakdown include those with a personal or family history of anxiety disorders. Other contributing factors include poor coping skills, poor interpersonal relationships, lack of social support, lack of self-care, and unhealthy coping strategies, e.g., alcohol drinking or drug abuse. The onset of a nervous breakdown may also stem from an undiagnosed or untreated mental disorder.

The Meaning of a Nervous Breakdown in Different Cultures

“Nervous breakdown” and “mental breakdown” are outdated medical terms. Regardless, the meaning varies from culture to culture, whenever or wherever they are still used. Experts agree that regardless of culture, a "nervous breakdown" means that the individual is no longer able to do his "normal functioning" due to extreme emotional or psychological distress or a psychiatric condition.

As the World Health Organization (WHO) points out, mental health goes beyond the absence of mental disorders. The WHO defines it as “a state of well-being" that involves realizing your abilities and having the ability to cope with the normal stresses of life. It also means you can work productively and fruitfully and can contribute to your community. That's the essence of "normal functioning."

Nervous Breakdown and Substance Abuse

Similar to depression, a nervous breakdown can push someone to abuse alcohol, prescription drugs, or illicit drugs. Conversely, substance use disorder is sometimes an underlying reason for a mental breakdown. The National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) confirms the connection between substance use disorders and mental health disorders.

Experts agree that people with mental health problems are more likely to abuse drugs or alcohol or develop a substance use disorder (SUD). In such cases, they can benefit from substance use disorder treatment within a rehab setting. It's important to treat both the SUD (also considered a mental health disorder) and the symptoms of a nervous breakdown. This approach is called dual diagnosis treatment and is done to increase the individual's chance of long-term recovery.

Getting Help During a Nervous Breakdown

Speak with your doctor if you suspect you may be experiencing a nervous breakdown after going over the symptoms. Another option is to reach out to a mental health professional. Early intervention and treatment can help prevent worsening of your symptoms, anxiety disorder, clinical depression, or psychosis.

Cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) is a proven evidence-based treatment designed to help you manage stress and improve your coping skills. Medication therapy, e.g., antidepressants or anxiety medications, may be prescribed to treat certain symptoms. The overall goal of treatment is to help you to regain normal functioning.

Coping Strategies

Improving the way you handle stress can help reduce the physical and emotional effects. Here are some things you can do besides talking to your doctor or therapist:

• Manage your stress: Determine which responsibilities you’re comfortable taking on now and which can wait until you feel better. While you may be unable to avoid stress from work or family obligations, try to manage it. Stress-management techniques include deep breathing, meditation, yoga, and mindfulness. Use these techniques to relax your body and mind and reduce the levels of cortisol (the stress hormone) produced by the body due to stress.

• Make sleep your friend: Quality sleep nightly is a natural therapy for the brain and body. Decide on a bedtime routine that will allow you to unwind before bed and get the recommended 7-9 hours of sleep at night.

• Embrace self-care: Poor lifestyle habits contribute to reduced physical and mental health. You can take control of your mental health by eating nutritious foods and staying physically active. Self-care also involves avoiding alcohol, drugs, and prescription drug misuse.

• Take a break: Carve out some "me time" daily for connecting with loved ones or enjoying the outdoors. Soak up the early morning or late afternoon sunlight if possible. Sunlight helps boost the mood hormone in the brain called serotonin.

Final thoughts

You are not alone in your fight to overcome a nervous breakdown. Anyone can experience this mental health crisis, mental health is not static. It can change over time for multiple reasons and lead to a loss of ability to function. The important thing is recognizing that it's happening and seeking help right away.

Sources

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov - Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5: A Quick Glance

nimh.nih.gov - Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder

tandfonline.com - The Diagnostic Meaning of 'Nervous Breakdown' Among Lay Populations

who.int - Mental Health: Strengthening Our Response

drugabuse.gov - Part 1: The Connection Between Substance Use Disorders and Mental Illness

sunshinebehavioralhealth.com - Inpatient Alcohol Rehab

About the Author

Dr. Arturo Osorio is a licensed physician practicing in Nicaragua. Dr. Osorio went to Universidad Nacional Autónoma de Nicaragua (León), where he got a Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery Degree. He has been practicing medicine in public hospital and private clinics since 2018.

Interview with Logan Johnston of Facebook

This is an edited transcript of my podcast interview. To hear the edited podcast, subscribe to the Beautiful Voyager podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.

Logan: Let's start. I'm in Berkeley. My quarantine has been spent with like five roommates. I got this big space I live in like an artist cooperative called Lumen labs. Then my brother flew out from New York.

Meredith: I want to talk a little bit about you. This is the first time we're doing anything like this is the total experiment—given—but I did write up some things that I want to talk about. The first thing I want to talk about is you, Logan. I'm gonna give a quick background about my experience of Logan which is that we met while working at a crazy startup called Outdoorsy. Now I say crazy startup because they all are. Nothing against outdoorsy specifically. It’s the Airbnb of RVs so it's a place where you can rent an RV or rent out your RV. I liked Logan immediately (given) but one of the things that it stood out about Logan in particular is he's a community builder. Tell me about tell me your story in your words Logan.

Logan: Before there was a job more common job function called community manager, and I rejected that job function. I was like in boot camps and reading everything I could about growth marketing and retention and engagement because I wanted to have an impact in the startup I didn't want to be handling support staff. Although now it's like oh when we we need people to run campaigns, engage people, like identify the best users and bring in like bring them in for products and testing and all the end now like be frontline support for mental health crisis and like be a communications expert for handling unweaving like unweaving systemic racism that is happening inside of our communities that's all the function of a community manager now. Make sure we're getting ROI on our community. Make sure that people are being engaged and the retaining and more people are our people were in our community or having a much better experience than people who don't join it and all of that. So I'm happy to call myself a community manager now. Outdoorsy was kind of the first place that I legitimized it

Meredith: Even in Outdoorsy you were one foot growth. I feel like you were always like growth.

Logan: I had to get in the door so I told them their email was bad. And we built (actually you built it Meredith) a Facebook group for Outdoorsy. Like a lot of people who work with Facebook groups it's intended for a specific thing and it's not intended for you're not supposed to be able to start a Facebook group and they get all the user data that's in the Facebook group but we were we did have these users there's a Facebook group or owners RV owners and so we were going to start this like long-term relationship with them we need to build a lot of trust with them to get them to hand over the keys to somebody else because we told them that was a requires a lot of a lot of trust and a sense of security if you're an RV owner you know anybody you'll know that like these are like babies these are like precious this is like like for someone to be like baby RV dog. We really had to build a lot of trust and I was sending a lot of feedback to the Facebook team I jumped into I talked my way to one of the community programs for group admins and I was and I was trying to navigate that space and I made friends with other people in the space who were also using Facebook groups so we can kind of share ideas and information and and yeah one of those people (shout out to Susie Nelson she is was a community manager at digital marketer comm then was hired as a community strategist at Facebook and then referred me in I think) cuz we sneakily joined each other's Facebook groups and learn from each other. So yeah well you've always been a community pioneer.

Meredith: I feel like you're one of the only people who really takes it seriously like even the fact that you were like let's try to do this podcast Meredith. Let's see how this goes. I think you should do this one zoom. Let's record it. You are always pushing for community and I really appreciate that about you.

Logan: I really happy to be here but shout out like if anybody from the community is listening and can follow up in the wonderful Beautiful Voyager Slack group of which I've been a community member for a couple years. Now we can do some questions follow up with the QA and and maybe have like some some peer-to-peer conversation with the other wonderful lighthouse.

Meredith: When did you first find beautiful Voyager? Did you think of yourself as a lighthouse for others at that point ?

Logan: I first found beautiful voyager because I was very interested in what Meredith was doing — what you were doing post Outdoorsy. You were already starting to build Beautiful Voyager while you were there. I remember being like “Meredith you're just like such a unicorn and you gotta find the perfect spot” and so I was thinking of spots for you. I joined your community and was introducing you to people and and programs and opportunities. I realized you have to take your time. I joined it and I got a lot of value out of it even there even though I'm in terms of my habits and maybe more lurker I love it though I mean I love that you get something out of it just from lurking yeah. it's helpful to know that there's something out there that's helpful it's always there I think one of the biggest strengths of the community is it's always there like if something is going I find some people are quiet for years and then all of a sudden they'll have a question. This podcast may be a place where when someone comes on they have something they really wanted to talk about that they haven't been able to figure out where to talk about it otherwise. We can we can take a topic and run with it. When this first happened I was in my job at Facebook. I work with programs or community leaders so I'm managing these Facebook groups for communicators a lot of the way that they learn as anybody can. Community leaders learn from each other. Like you'll see how somebody models behavior how they respond to something and that you'll sort of experiment with and try that voice so it's really important to bring these simulators together really important to model behavior one of the early things that we sort of recognized with the social distancing in place was that there'd be incredible effects on people's mental health. That were sort of unseen it was like seeing it as like a second epidemic that was coming was the epidemic of loneliness and epidemic of people running out of not having as much access to the mental health services. I work at Facebook I'm also one of the first ones to say that there are negative effects of just scrolling and reading Facebook or any kind of media any kind of newsfeed scroll for like more than thirty minutes is going to affect you and I'm also very tired at the end of the like a day of zoom meeting.

One thing I was thinking about is how do we how do we manage mental health in this time? How may look wellness around like emotional energy and energy around purpose and our energy around like our physical health and what that looks like now.

Meredith: I'm also very interested in like how we can have conversations now.

We’re in a double-double social upheaval of of our norms the second one being this social unrest that came about of the like the murders of members of the black community that and right now I'm I'm looking at into a lot of communities and I'm just seeing that a lot of people are feeling unsafe on both ends. How do we have conversations without safety? How do we get more comfortable being uncomfortable so we can start having these conversations?

Meredith: Those are each such meaty areas. At Facebook have are you connected to other people talking about mental health on the inside? I know you're a voice of that but is it very grassroots how people like find each other? I say this working at a tech company myself where it's grassroots. You know those of us building community internally. I'm just curious if that's similar.

Logan: It's not that revolutionary to talk about mental health inside Facebook. People are pretty aware. I I think of Facebook is like a pretty conscientious org. Like they keep hammering in that you'll bring your whole self to work. There's a lot of trainings in place about and a lot of opportunities available to find the common kind of conversations that you're looking. Which is surprising because Facebook is huge. There are like very smart people who realize that our job is focused on leading teams, building teams around loneliness and mental health, and depolarization at Facebook.

Meredith: And do you check in with that like I would imagine that the things you're doing are important with them as well yeah because you're talking about these conversations and how do you facilitate these conversations we're finding we're finding opportunities together to sort of overlap and I think everybody is looking very closely at what group leaders are doing Facebook's mission statement is changed like five or five years ago to focus on communities rather than just connecting people but giving them the power to build community and yeah I it's rarely a problem of having access to the right kind of conversations or getting the right resources I think that the interesting thing about being at Facebook or Pinterest is that when you're working with this many users you're you're sort of solving problems as if you were like it in the ears if you were like a civic servant for something now you're that's so well put that is so well put that's so true yeah people right can you just change this in the platform it's like my gosh like there's there's policy teams there's content teams there's how do we have when you roll something out you're rolling it out to a lot of different types of people even in talking about you know content we're always having to think of how language works in different places around the world and you know it's it's it's a very scaled operation yeah I think there's a there is a real opportunity right now with what's happening there's with each time there's the there was first the Kobe crisis and now this crisis of for Humanity and doing the right thing for community there's a real opportunity right now to present idea build teams get them prioritized and get things done and and also everyone with as I'm sure you've heard around the news with Facebook everyone has realized that they're not only just part of a product a company that builds product but also a company that has enforces policies and we have to be aware of how those policies affect people and how and Brielle's and like that act of being aware of how policies affect people it's like there's a long road to being truly aware of all the different voices that are being represented on the platform the different experiences it must be so hard logan to speak on Facebook's behalf it is doing something like I feel yeah I mean I feel you in the most empathetic way like you I know that you're working for good and I know that you mean everything that you say about building community and getting people to connect with each other and communicate and you're in such a polarized environment around even the topic of your workplace I mean that just that's hard I've had some I think there's I think that that the experience of looking at news and social media and reading things is very disorienting right now and I think that there's a long way to go with that I think social media itself is very new we're like in the second ending of a nine inning ballgame of that we're just we've got a long way to go having given everyone a voice and a platform and connected people now what and I think we don't really know as a society we don't know where she look like I get a lot of feedback that's like oh Facebook's been messing up I've written read about it the news is like all right like I've give me you're like let's have a conversation about yeah and I I yeah it's it's it's hard because I think that like the way that the way that like information and is like hitting our brains right now it's like everyone kind of assumes that everyone already knows everything and I see that also like when there's these debates being had about what is the truth about police brutality and systemic racism it's like everyone has information as seemingly has access to all of the facts but and all the literature and so there's like makes dialog hard because it's like everyone should this seems that everyone should know everything people come into conversations with me and be like oh now that we both have established that like Facebook is a rotten company and everyone should delete their accounts or something and I think well how do we how do we have a conversation that's sort of like it includes like the good and the bad what you're saying really resonates with me I mean I really feel like there's we have like more information than ever but a layer of assumption that is thicker than ever - and it's not like the information is cleared up thinking yet we're still learning how to process that information and communicate with each other if you could wave a magic wand and have something change I don't even know if this is possible around community building or communication at Facebook or outside of Facebook what would it be yeah I'll talk in general I think that the power of a good Community Builder good community leader is like so overwhelms any kind of like tools or policy or even like the subject matter that they're working on it's like if you have somebody who is just like truly has that's kind of spirit it has that like goal of connecting people and making them feel safe and helping encourage whatever transformations that come from people individuals when they're in that kind of space you could be running a meme group about kitties and it is Trant it is like powerful they get like can you say more about what that mindset is like what what is the mindset that helps do that yeah it's just like I think it starts with values or somebody somebody is like this is especially the values around like I am here as like a servant leader I'm connecting people my work is to connect people and to keep something safe to have these guidelines and to take feedback and to evolve them you are talking my language by the way I mean that is exactly how I think of like what my role is Oh beautiful and beautiful and beautiful ship Voyager in beautiful Voyager but also you know I established the first mental health ERG at Pinterest and I've really it's it's brought me a lot of joy to as things are getting so difficult especially through the protest to feel like I understand my role and it's exactly as you just described mmm so we just did like a mental health meeting along with the blackboard group at Pinterest and I just felt a lot of clarity around my role yeah and that's key sometimes I'm like within the last couple of weeks I'm like oh man do I speak up am I getting a little paralyzed like what if I say the wrong thing what if I everyone feels that way yeah and like if I say too much I'm too forward forthright am i trying to absolve the guilt and shame that I feel yeah am I like should I check in with pocs but I don't want to put my motional labor on them should I know I know but I looks at my rolodex for the most woke person I know I will paralyze but then like when something is something happens in one of my communities I have these principles I have the value of what is it is what what is this I look through that it's Siddhant record of incidents and the convert dialogue and I was like what is taxing to safety what is and what is what do we need to have in order to not just do conflict resolution not just solve the problem but get back to like friendly relations it's like reconciliation and yeah so I feel like I have commute as a community leader like relating to you what you said it's like you have a role and taking action helps me so much and feeling like I can have a positive impact based on my role so I totally feel yeah this is a hard question because I feel like the answer might be now do you think of yourself as an over-thinker yes oh okay surprised I even told them column and I'm like it's always like oh really like you know what's happening inside of me right now it doesn't surprise me because all the people that I'm drawn to tend to be everything that makes sense um Enneagram is helpful for me I've been working with a coach that refers to the enemy we established where I was on the Enneagram really fast which one which one are you I'm a seven okay one who is I can associate new ideas very easily I'm going in different directions to I get like once I stop having fun with stuff then I start to get antsy and I want to like drop it and that was useful because it's like the work there is like grounding into principles like not getting super flighty because it's exhausting hmm and it exhausts me too when I'm like I started like not even listen to myself when someone's like what's your opinion on this is like man I don't want to like start in a new direction or I don't want to just come up with a new idea because it doesn't mean we're gonna exit on it a lot of flats are like that too it's like I realize I could always have like a creative solution to something or you ask a question you get down to a question your start getting answers in it in your own like when practicing mindfulness if you bring in attention and you start I can start getting like a lot of ideas information it's like yeah yeah it's exhausting because it's like nothing can give you grounding

yeah I am journaling you yeah so you touched on this Oh journal I said what are some of your tips for your own managing your own overthinking it sounds like meditation journaling I have really enjoyed guided meditation of I bounced between the headspace app and the waking up app I'm Sam Harris yeah it's great um they're both great yeah I like it I really learn a lot from both of both of them because one is considered the headspace app is kind of like a mix of like body scan and the pasta and the headspace app kind of I like I like that it's a little meta it kind of shows you tells you what you're doing is you're doing it mm-hmm and it can kind of trust that and also I think that I've learned that like guided meditation is probably good for my undiagnosed ADHD mmm though I'm sticking with sticking with that for now and then the next

next thing I think is just bringing sort of like slow like giving myself opportunities to slow down and doing that as a practice like before I enter like my wake up what's going on checking all my stuff I like observe how I'm feeling right before I do that and observe like Oh am I feeling anxious am I feeling like shame I noticed that a lot of times I'm looking at news and stuff I'm trying to find the news that is gonna make me feel the most shame so I can remind myself and I'm a good person yeah I can feel so horrible about the news and stuff and not that dunk that I'm ready to change that right away or just having that observation but just knowing that that's what I'm doing and that's something to be aware of yeah I was gonna ask if the if the awareness of that state changes the behavior it sounds like not yet but it might I mean I like to think it does i think it's i think that like deciding that you're going to playing with this idea that deciding that you're just going to change a behavior because you want to is not exactly is not even as effective of being aware of your willingness to change them mmm yeah like a peeper where they're like man where does my i have a value that wants to be better and then above that I have this tendency this pattern that I was still doing the thing and you sort of like bringing compassion for yourself in that way because I was

it's easy to feel bad about like that you want to change but it's not able to change right away to like do a habit for a few days but you haven't you're not like you kind of lose the thread and then you lose it and then you you think that you're you don't have integrity or something that was happened to me a lot and who are some of your favorite um sort of like I don't want to say philosophers but you're in the habit world I are you like a habit builder person and who do you read and follow in that yeah I like James clear he's amazing by the way I mean that weekly email oh my three things every time I'm with every not talked about this it's amazing I don't think we've talked about it he's Columbus Ohio I think well you know you know a lot about James clear well I wrote him once I first got his email I was like this is incredible I need to meet this guy's in Columbus Ohio my brother lives there I wrote him and he's like I'm a little busy I didn't realize he's super famous he was so nice to write me back he's like I'm a little busy and then I realize like I was like he's like a huge by selling off it was sweet actually I like that I like taking I got a shout out this class I'm doing right now from Carolyn Elliot she is the author of existential kink and she encourages these habits like waking up pulling a tarot card writing it down and then looking for like how that tarot card will like rhyme with throughout the day and then at the end of it like just being like oh I didn't know what the morning but here's the ways that my day was kind of like the ten the five of swords like that it's kind of like loosening your brain yeah like a brain fun I like it yeah I like it cuz it's not necessarily saying this is the habit that will be helpful for you first it's more like you said it's like looser it's like you do the thing and then you reflect on it later you were super cool or build a habit of reflection well yeah and you're building a habit of like new pathways in your brain new more playful pathways it sounds like my last question in the podcast format that you and I have is what is your latest 1d win and before you answer I just want to explain that 1d win is short for wonderful win it was named by a very long-standing member of the beautiful Voyager slack community and I thought I thought I knew he lived in Stockholm but I thought he was British but he's like 1d is not British Arab he's of an Arab descent but lives in Stockholm but anyway so 1d wine what's your favorite what's your favorite one be one a wonderful win and it could be personal or it could be it could be anything and it's something that happened recently that you're like had that felt good I hmm we had a is my brother's birthday the other day right I think my mom likes to create rituals routines we so she's trying to start to create a family ritual where on birthdays we say what's something we like about the person and it was nice as I just spent all this time with my brother and I was able to share with him that I see that he's having to be very strong now these he's an actor out of we can't work and can't be passion about what he's passionate about and I was able to share that with his friends and it's just like that moment of like we've said before just like being able to feel like you have something important to add being able to be of service like help me feel better - and also summarize this time that you invested in like building your relationship with him right now yeah because of co-ed we're where is he an actor where's he in LA normally weird since he's in New York City normally yeah he just uh I'll share this later he got he was cast in this like he's like breakthrough role perhaps in this play that was gonna be off-broadway that was by the Jeremy o Harris who was the playwright for race race play and it was this he's gonna win Jeremy Harris was surely gonna win some Tony's and then Connor my brother was going to appear in this play the same week of the Tony Awards and now that's all been deferred and and so he's just like like I have to wait I have to wait for my dream to come back yeah so hard it's so hard this so hard Connor I cannot wait for you to be famous yeah I'm so excited for when your dream does the world will be a better place the world will totally be a better place any final thoughts this was amazing I feel like I learned so much about you that makes me so happy oh I'm happy too that's how what is it what is what inspired you to do a podcast what's your dream for it well I I've I've been such an avid podcast consumer for so long I actually started listening to audio books when they were tapes in the year 2000 and they would be sent in a box to me in New York and you'd get like 14 tapes and it was books on tape but what I always really wanted was conversation it was like I was waiting for podcasts to be born and when they were I listened to more podcasts than anyone I know like I have like 30 podcast or 40 podcasts that are I'm a regular listener of so I listened to a lot of podcasts Oh usually for walks mmm and I do this this weird massage bed or how it's called the meegan bed it's like this South Korean jade Ball super hot anyway I love it and that and so I always listen to it I'm on that and but they're just these different times of the day and you know sometimes if I'm just like trying to relax my eyes I'll just like lay I'm listening to podcasts it's just like a it's almost compulsive because I listen to so many but you know we have those parts of ourselves so so you know I've always been such a consumer and I want to have conversations but I kind of like writing like I never thought I had anything that's special to a door that different but enough people lately since my book came out and I was doing podcast interviews I did seven podcast interviews and I really loved them and then people would listen to them and say please try to do a podcast do if I could so since you helped me figure out a format I figure why not try it this is wonderful I'd love to inspiring inspiring more podcasters out there I'm sure I hope so you're inspired and you have a great voice for podcasting yes I thank you I had been told that before I have an actor friend who always says you need to be doing voice work Meredith which I see is I'm you know a major compliment so yeah I feel like compliments about voice is like something something hits deep about them like if your compliment like oh you have like such beautiful like eyes really I'm suspicious like what do you mean superficial that's superficial but if you're like I really feel like you have a calming and soothing pearlescent voice

somebody once said I forget where this quote came from but it was something like people don't remember the things you said in a conversation but they remember how you made them feel and that's my Angelou thank you thank you and that is something I think about a lot is that you know I used to be really stuck on like the exact did I say the exact right thing did I say it the right way and now I'm like you know what people remember is how you how you made them feel yeah yeah I don't remember we're talking about just now compliments yeah um thank you so much Logan I loved having you as my first guest oh let's we can I'm I'm glad to be here at the beginning it'll be fun looking back on this later and seeing how far we've come I know I know me too yeah um bye dear thank you thank you